TAKING ON 'WANNABE' WEB SITES
(Reader
Responses)
If you wish to comment, please contact Jere
Beery at: jerebeery@aol.com
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Jere
To give you some unsolicited advice. To call the POW Network "bottom feeders" may gain you some support from the uninformed, but certainly have you lose some from the well informed. Just have anyone scroll down on their site and see who endorses them or supports them. Are they bottom feeders also? You made a mistake and now you want to shoot the messenger. I don't think you will get the support from the POW Associations, the MOPH, SFA and the Ranger Association as the POW Network is. I don't think anyone is questioning your service or awards, but that is what you have turned this issue into.To alter a DD 214 and post it to the Internet, for whatever reason, is not the right thing to do. Bite the bullet and admit you made a mistake and drop your witch hunt.
Randy Cesani
SGM,USA Ret
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AND THERE IS ANOTHER GROUP JERE. LIKE ME. I FLY THE POW-MIA FLAG, IN
REMEMBERANCE OF MY FELLOW BROTHERS IN ARMS WHO I KNOW ARE STILL IN NAM. I
BELONG TO NO POW-MIA ORG. BUT DO BELIEVE THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE FORGOTTEN.
AN I HAVE STICKERS ON MY TRUCK. I WAS ASKED IF I WAS ONE. I SAID NO. BUT I
DO BELIEVE THEY STILL HAVE SOME OF OUR TROOPS OVER IN NAM. KOREA. AN IRAQ.
AN THE ONES FROM WWII. GARY T.
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"
A simple VFW bar room war story can lead to a full investigation by one of these unauthorized groups. The next thing the veteran knows is, his picture and military records are posted on the Internet without his permission. In some cases his personal information has been compromised, and he is deemed a phony scumbag because someone overheard him say he had three Purple Hearts and he only had two. Unfortunately, this usually occurs when theThe above is a weak 'reach' at best...an over simplifacation...at worst it would raise questions of imbellishment, a few direct questions and direct answers would deflect and further investigation. Simple rule of thumb...'If ya don't rate it, don't claim it'.
"These Wannabe groups are not sanctioned or regulated by any law enforcement, or government agency; they have no real authority to do what they do. Publicly they claim to get all their information about an individual they are investigating through the Freedom of Information Act, (FOIA). But, privately, they boast of having connections within the VA and DOD that will provide them any information they request on an individual."
Is your website 'sanctioned or regulated'? I think not, mine isn't...as far as 'authority' goes, the FOIA givesan individual access to public records, any and all...is there a problem with that? It is the law after all, correct? Speaking only of the POW/MIA Network and It's Just A Nam Thing, I've never heard either of them boast of an 'in' at either the VA or DOD and I know Dane personally, I correspond with Chuck and Mary via email fairly frequently. These are the two main ones I see that you mention....would you care to expand a little, just for clarification?
"Apparently, they didn’t like the looks of my DD214 posted on my web site, and they determined I was guilty of the federal offense of altering my discharge papers."
"To be perfectly frank, I totally resent these bottom-feeders putting their dirty hands on my military records, much less publicly releasing them to complete strangers over the Internet."
Bottom Feeders? You put your 214 on your website...that made it PUBLIC, in so doing, you gave them and anyone else permission to view your PUBLIC RECORDS! You want stuff kept personal, don't put it on public display...pure and simple logic there I'd say.
"Currently, the Schantags are under investigation by the VA IG for statements they made concerning ‘friends’ sifting through military personnel records, and possible conspiracy to access Social Security numbers and other protected personal information."
Now I gotta question the truthfullness of this statement, or is it conjecture? Do you know for fact that this is going on or just 'implying' it? Is it a case of 'the pot calling the kettle black?
" A number of veterans have complained to me personally about being unjustly embarrassed and publicly humiliated by the POW Network and similar groups. In at least one case, a veteran claims his SS number was stolen which lead to identity theft and thousands of dollars in false charges. In another case, a defamation suit was dismissed when the veteran died before he could confront Chuck and Mary Schantag in court."
More inuendo? As for the defamation suit....I recieved personally, email from the Shantag's lawyer that the case was meritless and would not have gone anywhere anyway, regardless of whether the Veteran died or not.
"Many of us within the veteran’s community are working very hard to unite this
country’s former military personnel."
For this, I applaud you...but still have to ask your motivation.
"Infiltrators within our ranks of the national veteran community are
needlessly turning veterans into the VA for investigation. This is totally
unacceptable, and counterproductive to unity within the Veteran’s Rights
Movement. These groups thrive on intimidating and discourage legitimate
veterans from participating in the public arena by requiring they prove
themselves yet again. I find these arbitrary and capricious shake-downs of
veteran’s credentials to be extremely damaging to overall morale and totally
uncalled for. At this point in our history, as long as an individual has a
Green Card and/or a Voter’s Registration Card, I really don’t care what the
hell they did or didn’t do in the service. I am personally urging sponsors of
these groups to reconsider their support and voice their objection of this
overzealous witch hunt. I can’t help but wonder if Ann Mills Griffith is aware
of the activities taking place under the POW/MIA banner."
Protecting Veteran benefits, weeding out wannabe leeches is not a damn 'witch hunt', it's a service to our Veterans. You go on to say that you don't care at this point in history, a green card or voter registration card is good enough....wake up and smell the coffee, illegal immigrants are getting driver's licenses in many states....thus enabeling them to get those precious voter registration cards.
"Some Wannabe web sites have hate messages posted on them, like; ‘Wanted
Dead or Alive’, implying death to the individuals listed there.
http://itsjustanamthing.com/wannabessuck.htm
While others are somewhat more subtle with professional looking graphics and
audio tracks.
http://members.aol.com/viperash50/wannabe/wannabe.html
www.pownetwork.org "
Now, this is where we really have a difference of opinion....like I said, I know Dane personally, a finer person, Marine, Father, Grandfather and humanbeing you'll not find anywhere. At the beginning of his site is a posted warning...absolutely no one has to enter if they don't wish to. Would you be referring to the combination of pictures...xlinton, cronkite, hayden and fonda? For your information, I created that image, had it on my site for a long time....shit happened, I got back-stabbed and that site no longer exists....I am indeed glad that the image survived by Dane copying it and using it on his site.
As for ViperAsh, I belong to his webring and damn glad to be a part of it. One day I hope to make his aquaintenance, until then, I'll stick up for him and continue to share his beliefs.
I've already made clear my feelings about Chuck and Mary, I'll just re-enforce them by saying I'll help them with their work any way I can.
"I can tell you this with great certainty. The NPRC has already taken steps to improve data security and has also enacted new guideline for all FOIA requests. I can also assure you that the VA and DoD are very aware of possible security breaches by mom and pop groups claiming to be a veteran’s service organization (VSO). Once the VA IG concludes its investigation of the POW Network, and I have received their findings, they will be posted on the FBN."
Don't see anywhere where you mention any of the security breaches the VA
has experienced...is there a reason for the exclusion? Inquiring minds await
the answer here.
In a related story, Veteran’s Rights Advocate, Gene Simes of Rochester, NY
recently had 6 pages of his military service records released by the
Schantages in exactly the same manner."
Six pages of 'public records'...did they include SS number or service number? Anything that would enable a criminal or one so inclined to be, access to steal his identity?
In closing, I'd say you need to write an apology to at least Dane, Chuck and Mary along with Viper for sliming them the way you have....another thing you might consider is either swallowing or spitting out the sour grapes you seem to have your mouth full of, get over your bitterness and quit causing trouble.
Rick Johnson...USMC, RVN, '66-'67
1st AmTracBn, 3rd MarDiv
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From: "Ed Lawton" <elawton@cox.net>
To: <firebaseadrian@tc3net.com>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 8:57 AM
Subject: Current Story re: POW Network
I just read your comprehensive story on the POW Network and the ongoing
VA OIG Investigation.
This is a well written report with a great deal of fact and detail. I
think you've done a good job explaining the facts of this matter and I
will look forward to reading your future reports on the status and
disposition of the VA OIG Investigation.
v/r
Ed Lawton
USAF-retired
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as i said
before anyone can bring charges againt anyone
in-a-cent till proven so until proof is given from the law ceese and dis-cist
this crap of cutting down anyone
you claim to do good then do it and let the law handle the other if they need
it i think you need
'to do a lot of knee work for what you pass off as truth?? once more
in-a-cent till proven guilty
you have turned them in ?? then let the law check it out
dang you sound like a person i once knew yelled wolf too many times
look unto your own house how was it once put me thinks he protests to much
hell check me out if you wish that ought to give you something to do besides
bother other people
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I support you in investigating, in my opinion, the evilness of
this group
and the Schantags. Did either serve the U.S.A. or put themselves in Harm's
way?? I am the daughter of a Veteran the sister of three M.I.A's and the
wife of a murdered Veteran,WW11, murdered in his own Country at a V.A.
facility. in Minneapolis, MN. No justice in MN. We need groups to support
and fight for our Veterans RIGHTS, and their pensions, the people cutting
the pensions never served their Country. PUT OUR VETERANS FIRST, OUR BRAVE
MEN AND WOMAN, THEY SHOULD HAVE THE VERY BEST OF SERVICES AND PENSIONS. OUR
FREEDOM IS BECAUSE THEY SACRIFICED THEMSELVES. WITH MY DEEPEST THANKS TO
THESE BRAVE MEN AND WOMEN.
Joan (Joan K Myers)
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[NOTE] Ms. Weller’s email response was several pages long. Below is the condensed version. If you wish to read her email in its entirety, click here WELLER Weller's comments appear in RED below.
Several months ago I personally became a target when the POW Network started an investigation on me. Apparently, they didn’t like the looks of my DD214 posted on my web site, and they determined I was guilty of the federal offense of altering my discharge papers. (Two Different Fonts were used on your web page, a clue that all was NOT coposetic) Even after receiving, and publicly distributing 18 pages of my personal military records which verified all of the information on my DD214 was correct, the Schantags refuse to comment or publicly set the record straight. Jere Beery, you KNOW that is an OUTRIGHT LIE. The addition YOU, personally, added to your website page DOES NOT, DID NOT appear on your OFFICIAL MILITARY RECORDS. Your WORD was taken for the fact that you stated the Military Records keeping Dept. Was well behind in their work, that the records were DUE TO BE UPDATED. You were THUS, merely ASKED to state so on your website. A DISCLAIMER, as such, stating the TRUE AND HONEST FACTS, THAT YOU WERE DUE WHAT YOU HAD STATED ON YOUR WEBSITE, BUT THAT THE ACTUAL TRUTH WAS, THE MILITARY RECORDS WERE NOT AS OF THE POSTING OF YOUR WEBSITE, BEEN UPDATED TO REFLECT SAID INFORMATION. YOU HAVE ADAMENTLY REFUSED. Instead, they quietly allow a cloud of doubt to loom over my service to this country. They refuse to admit they found nothing fraudulent with my military records. To be perfectly frank, I totally resent these bottom-feeders putting their dirty hands on my military records, (No one's dirty hands touched your military records as your's were sent electronically via a .pdf attachment, Sir) much less publicly releasing them to complete strangers over the Internet. Your military records WERE NOT released to complete strangers as you very well know. It is also a well known fact that ANYONE, CIVILIAN, FELLOW VETERAN, ANYONE, CAN ACCESS THESE SAME RECORDS THROUGH THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT. THE INFORMATION DEEMED PERSONAL, SUCH AS A PERSON'S SSN AMONG OTHER INFORMATION IS HARSHLY AND COMPLETELY BLACKED OUT TO PROTECT THE PERSONAL RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS OF THE MILITARY PERSONNEL. This is NOT a law or something that the POW Network just came up with on their own. This is per regulations and laws of our Country...the DOD, the VA, our Government. IF you do NOT appreciate this being the case, I SUGGEST you take it up with the APPROPRIATE authorities. As stated, the DOD, the VA, our Government...NOT THE POW Network. Some will counter with; “if you have nothing to hide, what does it matter?” I owe no one an explanation of my military service. My military records are ‘mine’, as in ‘M-I-N-E’. Writing to the NPRC to get military records released under the FOIA on complete strangers in hopes of digging up dirt is kind of like farting in church. Sure, you have the right to fart in church, but it won’t win you any friends. And there are very serious questions about how these groups really do get their information. If you have questions, doubts, accusations, STOP taking it public, TAKE IT WHERE IT BELONGS TO BE TAKEN, THE PROPER AUTHORITIES. Oops, forgot, you did, and they laughed at you. It should also be well stated and DOCUMENTED that the ONLY PERSON who continues to accuse, discuss and make ISSUE of the matter is MR. BEERY. His military records were passed to the person who requested it who hence sent in on to MR. BEERY HIMSELF. No hidden agenda.
Currently, the Schantags are under investigation by the VA IG for statements they made concerning ‘friends’ sifting through military personnel records, and possible conspiracy to access Social Security numbers and other protected personal information. Mr. Beery has also accused me, Diane Weller, of having his SSN, of using it, to what end I haven't a clue!, and told me I was under investigation by the VA IG also. To date, I have heard nothing from anyone. He also, in a recent email, advised me that IF I did have his SSN, to get rid of it fast and lie my ass off to the VA IG. I AM NOT A LIAR. I am a human being who makes mistakes and admits to them when I make them, which is what I advised Mr. Beery also. I state for public record, I HAVE NOT EVER HAD MR. BEERY'S NOR MR. GENE D. SIMES SSN's. I don't know what I would want them for, what I'd do with them. This is a horrendous and stupid accusation and totally unfounded. My comments at one time when I was being called all kinds of names and being issued death threats just after suffering a stroke and a heart attack, when death was all too near, I said I 'COULD GET' their SSN's if I wanted to. BUT, AGAIN, WHY WOULD I WANT TO? TO WHAT END? TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT?
A number of veterans have complained to me personally about being unjustly embarrassed and publicly humiliated by the POW Network and similar groups. In at least one case, a veteran claims his SS number was stolen which lead to identity theft and thousands of dollars in false charges. In another case, a defamation suit was dismissed when the veteran died before he could confront Chuck and Mary Schantag in court. THIS case was never hidden from the public nor veterans of today, yesterday or those of tomorrow. As a matter of fact, Chuck and Mary put out an SOS for a Defense Fund and YOU ALL helped. They do not charge one single penny to assist anyone. They follow up on every claim, snippet of information. Do they shout, yell, proclaim their conquests? NO. They get very little GOOD press for all the GREAT THINGS they do. If a drunken veteran, in a stupor of alcohol, proclaims he has 3 purple hearts while only having 2, HELL YES THAT'S FRAUD! It's a LIE, it's a claim to unearned fame. As a fellow patriot, I certainly find it insulting.
Many of us within the veteran’s community are working very hard to unite this country’s former military personnel. Mr. Beery, you are not working to UNITE this country's Veteran's community...You have done NOTHING for months on end now except write about YOURSELF and YOUR woes, how YOU are constantly getting unfair treatment from EVERYONE. The last claim I read about, via Rick Townsend's newsletter, which seems to be YOUR newsletter now, was filled to the brim about YOUR INJUSTICE and MISTREATMENT by the VA. Seemingly everyone is out to get YOU.
Infiltrators within our ranks of the national veteran community are needlessly turning veterans into the VA for investigation. Isn't this what YOU are doing, Mr. Beery?
Some Wannabe web sites have hate messages posted on them, like; ‘Wanted Dead or Alive’, implying death to the individuals listed there. The Graphix, "Wanted Dead or Alive" pertains to the meaning that America wants our POW/MIAs returned to their homeland, whether or not they are 'dead or alive'. If they are indeed deceased, we want whatever remains are left so that proper burial and identification can take place. Families need to KNOW. Families need to say GOODBYE and KNOW that that is TRULY their loved one. HOW CAN ANYONE MISUNDERSTAND THAT? http://itsjustanamthing.com/wannabessuck.htm In a related story, Veteran’s Rights Advocate, Gene Simes of Rochester, NY recently had 6 pages of his military service records released by the Schantages in exactly the same manner. Gene D. Simes records were requested by me, Diane M. Weller. When I received his, in paper form, I perused them and then put them in an envelop and mailed them, PERSONALLY, to Mr. Gene D. Simes. I also just requested another set of records Jere, for my marine's father, who my marine has never known, there have been NO CHANGES in the manner in which MILITARY SERVICE RECORDS ARE RELEASED. Once again, Mr. Beery, you speak without knowledge.
Diane M. Weller PowMiaAngel
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I think
it is great that there are sites that expose these phonies who steal the valor
of the real veterans.
I have experience a number of these characters and they all should be exposed.
Thank God for freedom we have to do just this.
I don't know about your indiviudal case, but if you were exposed, so be it. As
far as telling war stories after a few drinks, that's bullshit. These websites
exist to expose those sorry asses who claim service and awards they were not
entitled to and I have never seen one that says anyone claimed 3 Purple Hearts
when they only had two after a drink. You are just blowing smoke there.
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WANNA BEES KILL THE FEELING OF TRULY BEING A
VETERAN. I HAVE BEEN A NATIONAL VETERANS SERVICE OFFICER FOR 21 PLUS YEARS AND
HAVE ONLY HAD 2 CLAIMS DENIED. ONE WAS APPROVED IN APPEAL. THESE STINKING FAKES
ARE BAD NEWS TO ALL OF US AND THEY SHOULD NOT RECEIVE ANY VA OR GI BENEFITS AT
ALL. THE SYSTEM SUCKS AN IT NEEDS A COMPLETE OVERHAUL BY PUTTING KNOWLEDGEABLE
VETERANS IN THEIR PLACES.
--
VETERANS HELPING VETERANS
AS GOOD AS IT GETS
All Mail Certified Virus-Free
Norton Anti-Virus 2006
http://www.symantec.com
DON WARSHAW
VSO/VETERANS ADVOCATE
THE SERVICE OFFICER'S CORNER
http://www.geocities.com/veteransadvocate
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Dear Friends and others,
Considering the fact that I was not privey to this e-mail and it was sent by another I find Mr Beery's remarks about my website and my business very strange. If I were you Mr Beery I'd find a real cause to fight for...not something where you are going up against what many veterans find as disgusting..... and that is a Valor Thief...I don't know if you left anyone behind in Vietnam...but I can tell you, I did, and to my dieing day I will protect their reputation...if I may
I now know why men who have been to war yearn to reunite. Not to tell stories or look at old pictures. Not to laugh or weep. Comrades gather because they long to be with the men who once acted at their best; men who suffered and sacrificed, who were stripped of their humanity. I did not pick these men. They were delivered by fate and the military. But I know them in a way I know no other men. I have never given anyone such trust. They were willing to guard something more precious than my life. They would have carried my reputation, the memory of me. It was part of the bargain we all made, the reason we were so willing to die for one another. As long as I have memory, I will think of them all, every day. I am sure that when I leave this world, my last thought will be of my family and my comrades... Such good men."
My web site is dedicated to those who came home from Vietnam. Those who are still waiting to return, and to those who will never return. That is how it is and that is how it will stay.
You Jere Beery made the mistake by posting an altered DD214 on your site, you had to know someone would see it and scrutinize it! Not everyone who is on the Internet or who is involved with Veterans issues knows who you are!!! or what you did in Vietnam!!!!...therefore it is your responsibility to keep your own affairs in order ...and when someone questions the GREAT JERE BEERY not to lash out at the POWNetwork...but to thank them for getting your correct records...But not the great JERE BEERY he was wounded he's a war hero...he's been a half assed Veterans advocate. Grow up...go get a real issue that is not going to be so divisive just because your little feelings were hurt. In other words Jere Beery get a life if you want to help veterans then help them...but you are NOT running the Veterans in this country.
"Many of us within the veteran’s community are working very hard to unite this country’s former military personnel."
"Infiltrators within our ranks of the national veteran community are needlessly turning veterans into the VA for investigation. This is totally unacceptable, and counterproductive to unity within the Veteran’s Rights Movement."--Jere Beery
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Jere
Beery, I stand behind you on the phony web sites of POW/MIA sites claiming to
want to help our veterans, then find out that
they are a phoney web site when looked into a bit.
Jere, I know you
served with honor, and what ever they say, you still have that honor, don't let them take you down or upset you.
Yes,
The VA IG should be investigating the one site of Mary and her other half if
that's what he is, and brought up on federal charges or something. That
site should be removed and never be allowed to use the name as POW/MIA. All I
can say sir, is if I can help bring them down, I
will do everything in my power to do so. I mean how low can one sink to hurt a true and dedicated member of
distinguished service to our country. May they rot in hell.
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Right
the fuck on Bro! Be careful with Viperasshole and his
followers tho. Remember I too was a target, pity they
couldn't touch me tho. Would like
to investigate Vipers claims to fame tho. I
mean how does one go from being drafted to E 6 before leaving the states?
Sounds like a wanna be to
me. But then I could be wrong, I do know however those who scream loudest, usually have something to hide.
Keep up
the good work,
Mule
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I too have been
the target of these “Wannabe” FBI or whatever they are pretending to be that
authorizes them to somehow judge fellow Veterans.
A group of Texas
Lawyers for Bush, connected to the Swift Boat Vets, attacked me because I
exposed at my site www.VetsForJustice.com how Bush has
fought against Veterans on every Veteran Issue, even sending attorneys to fight
Veterans on the Disabled Veterans Tax.
The Texas Group,
claiming to be “Special Forces” authorized to investigate Veterans actually
made a number of threats, telling me I’d better “watch in my mirror” when I
drove.
I pointed out
that threats were not necessary, that I would pay for plane tickets so these
“killers” could run their mouth to my face. Needless to say not a one of those
“Special Forces Killers” had the guts to accept my offer.
That shows the
stuff these attack groups are really made of.
When the VA
started making Vet Centers about ten years after Vietnam real Vets, many who
lived in the woods, would go to Vet centers for coffee, stale doughnuts, and
would meet fellow nam Vets. We also saw the fakes and
I can tell you from experience most nam Vets I know
were kind of amused that others NOW wanted to be
Vietnam Vets. It was almost a complement.
I could care less
if another Vet has this medal or that medal and to be honest I’m not even sure
what medals I got or what all of them mean. When putting on dress greens next
to my discharge time I didn’t even know about the combat slashes on the arm,
and the overseas slashes, nor what the Vietnam medal with the stars on it
means, nor the others. And to be honest I could care less.
Hell if a fellow
vet is into medals and I got one he can have it. Who gives a shit? Can a ribbon
or medal buy a cup of coffee? Can it get your benefits to feed your family?
No matter where
you were in
It is my PERSONAL
belief that any Vet that wants to judge others, is not
a REAL Vet, no matter where he or she served.
And it takes
someone really low to want to PLAY DOCTOR and try to tamper with another Vets
disability. If a doctor finds someone disabled what give some asshole with no
medical training the right to try to screw up that disabled Veterans
Disability?
Any Vet that acts
like that towards his brother Vets is no different then the VC. They are a
traitor and not fit to be called a Vet.
And unlike these
“killers” that are attacking Veterans I have no problem telling them that to
their face.
Billy Ray Kidwell
Founder
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The Pownetwork has exposed hundreds of phoneys
and saved money for the VA that should go to REAL veterans,
they have the backing of alot more people than you do
Jere Beery. Why dont you get a life and go out and
help some Vets instead of causing trouble wherever you go? Your website is
radical and you are a smart ass who is always arguing with the people around
you. Grow up you are owed nothing even the great Jere Beery can have his
records pulled by anyone through the Freedom of information act, you even have
several embellishers and fakes on your readers responses who are nothing but
liars and they are defending you, one is Trumpower
and the other is Rennie both liars and fakes. Get a
life Beery and grow up you are nobody special. The Schantags
are good people and they could have the wrath of the veterans who back them
make you look like a fool, but they wont because they
are just to nice, and dont even want to get involved
with you.
Ronald Smith
1967-68 70-71
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